What follows are AUDIO EXCERPTS from an interview with Lee Underwood conducted by Daryl Patrick of KKUP Radio 91.5 FM in Cupertino California on October 21, 1995.
There are 26 different sound clips on about 15 different subjects. I broke the answers down that way for easier streaming or downloading. I also provided the written transcripts for all the excerpts with the exception of 10A through 10H. If you just click on the attachments at the bottom of the transcript one at a time, your Windows Player or Real Player should provide the sound necessary.
(Attachment L.U. 01...32 Seconds)... ON MEETING TIM...
DARYL...Basically Lee...when and where and how did you meet Tim and begin to play with him?
LEE...Met him in New York in the spring of 1966 down in Greenwich Village through a mutual friend. Tim heard me play and sing some of my tunes and he said to me: "Listen, I've got a gig over at the Night Owl and I've got a contract with Elektra, would you like to play guitar with me?" So, I went over to his place and listened to him sing and said "Oh my God, here's a real singer."
LEE...Well, as a person, Tim was one of the most interesting, exciting, and complex people I've ever encountered. He was very bright... had tremendous insight...his talent knew virtually no bounds. He was a funny guy as well ...great sense of humor. Of course, he was physically very attractive... his voice was incredible... and the music just flowed like rivers. It was great.
LEE...There was another side to him that was I'd say extreme lacking in self-confidence, lacking in self-esteem, it was very angry and even to the point of self-destruction.
(Attachment L.U. 03...30 Seconds)...ON OTHER MUSICIANS...
LEE...Tim revealed a lot of himself when he talked about musicians. He was speaking of several jazz musicians and he said: "Roland Kirk has forever been my total idol. Some people create a total thing by using the audience as a base of communication, not just playing for themselves or for a certain market... which is the same thing. Some people play the same music live that they played on record which is fine, but it's like who are they doing it for and why?"
LEE..."Roland has been my idol for years, his rhythmic time, his conception, of course all of his chops, but his expression is the thing I'm really moved by. He doesn't hold anything back." (LEE...and this is important, because Tim didn't either, you know.) "He gives it all and it's alive, in the moment... not some retread of an album he did ten years ago or even yesterday. Everything great is rooted in spontaneity and Roland Kirk is the epitome of spontaneity."
LEE...Tim always felt he was gonna die early. His mother sort of programmed him that way you know 'cause... poets always die early. It's sort of their job.
DARYL...Kind of the James Dean thing ...kind of livin' fast...
LEE...Yeah, yeah..she kind of, you know put that in him, and he believed it whole- heartedly, and so time was a pressing matter for him he really did not believe he'd live past thirty and he didn't. He died June 29, 1975. He was 28 years old.
(Attachment L.U. 05...22 Seconds)...PLACES THEY PLAYED...
LEE...The Cellar was an interesting club in Washington D.C. that was during the "Starsailor" period and the guy, I don't recall his name, who ran the place was fascinated with the "Starsailor" music that Tim was making which was really avant-garde classical music...very dissonant a lot of different time signatures and you know, kind of scary music and very exciting to those who had open ears.
(Attachment L.U. 06...35 Seconds)...ON LARRY BECKETT...
LEE...He and Beckett had worked together for many years and Beckett was very helpful to him. But Tim, you must remember was not particularly well educated. Larry was very well educated and Tim was always kind of a little impressed by things that sounded academic or you know scholarly or high class. So Larry had some of these elements and brought some of them to the writing and sometimes it worked and sometimes it was a little heavy.
(Attachment L.U. 07...14 Seconds)...ON GOING IT ALONE...
LEE... I felt that Tim wanted to move on his own purely as a creative gesture to dig deeper and to go higher than Larry ( talented though he was, and is indeed )...wanted to fly higher than Larry could.
LEE..."Happy Sad" which Tim said was my album, because I kind of helped him with the jazz influences after he'd left "Goodbye And Hello" and you know where do you go next? Which is a question he asked throughout his career. Well, I was really into jazz
and brought in some of these jazz things so the jazz-influenced "Happy Sad" album he said quote was "my album". And on that album, I really like "Love From Room 109", and "Dream Letter", and "Sing A Song For You".
(Attachment L.U. 09...32 Seconds)...ON "LORCA"...
LEE...He felt "Lorca", the title track "Lorca" was probably his debut as an original singer and songwriter...as an authentic, unique, artist...and he felt most proud of that title track "Lorca" but it's difficult to listen to it very long...not radio-friendly, or anything.
...DARYL...And I think that I read in one of your articles when he performed it live it just kind of blew people away. They didn't know what to do with that.
LEE...They didn't know what to do with it. It was you know, just too far out.
(Attachments L.U. *10a...27 Sec. *10b...30 Sec. *10c...23 Sec. *10d...39 Sec. *10e...38 Sec. *10f...32 Sec. *10g...24 Sec. *10h...31 Sec.) ...
ALL 8 ATTACHMENTS PERTAIN TO "STARSAILOR" AND IMPROVISATIONAL INFLUENCES...
...SORRY FOLKS, too long to transcribe...you're on your own for this part. Your pal, Jack...
(Attachment L.U. 11...30 seconds)...ON LOSING HIS AUDIENCE...
DARYL...How did Tim feel about his audience that couldn't keep up with the changes as well as the critics on favourable reviews that couldn't keep up with his changes? How did he feel about that?
LEE...Well, IT HURT! It hurt...he wanted people to like him, you know. You're giving everything you have and then somebody puts you down because on this album you don't sound like you did on the first album. So, since Tim was constantly changing, he was constantly losing old audiences and gaining new ones.
(Attachment L.U. 11a...31 seconds)...ON LOSING HIS AUDIENCE CONTINUED...
LEE...And, it's a slow process to build an audience. So, when he was on everybody else's wavelength quite naturally, just being who he was, with "Goodbye And Hello" everybody said: "Oh Tim, you're great, you're wonderful, we love you". Because, what he was doing, fit their minds. But, when he moved away from that into the jazz things, all the people who loved the "Beatles" and all other kind of pop musics of the day said: "What are you doing with all this jazz stuff... I mean this is crazy."
(Attachment L.U. 12...47 Seconds)...ON THE FAILURE OF "STARSAILOR"...
LEE...But then Tim moved into "Lorca" and "Starsailor" and my goodness only the most adventurous listeners could go for that . It was just too dissonant, too far out... too innovative, too unfamiliar and challenging to be comfortable. So boom, you know, the failure of "Starsailor"...Tim regarded "Starsailor" as being his masterpiece and that failure really kind of hurt him a lot. That's when he started to turn to alcohol a little too much, drugs a little too much, and things got pretty bad there for a couple of years. So yeah, he was depressed by that .
(Attachment L.U. 13...26 Seconds)...ON THE MOVIE "CHANGES"...
LEE...When Hal Bartlett did "Changes" in 1969 he used 3 tunes commercially available..."She Is" from the first album, "Morning Glory" and "Once I Was" from "Goodbye And Hello". He also used 3 songs from the "Happy Sad" period that weren't released by Elektra and still aren't released. Yeah really. One is called "The Father Song", and the other two are called "Wildwood" and "The Prize".
LEE...Those are in that movie and I've seen that movie.
DARYL...Are there vocals to those, or are those just instrumental tracks.
LEE...No, they're vocals, and I've seen the movie. Young man's coming of age in the sixties you know, looking for meaning in love and awareness in Big Sur. It's a sensitive and well done kind of "coming of age" film.
DARYL...That's out on video now that's been released?
LEE...I saw it in video a few years ago. I don't know if it's still out, but I hope it is.
(Attachment L.U.14...30 Seconds)...ON THE JOHNNY CARSON SHOW...
DARYL...Oh, he did the "Johnny Carson Show"?
LEE...Yeah! Unfortunately, Johnny was not on. Alan King was the guest host. We played "Wings" from the first album. I remember King was kidding him about his wild and bushy hair. Saying something to the effect of: "Crazy hair you've got there. Didn't know you were a hippie". And Tim replied: "Funny, I always thought you were a piece of cardboard". LOL...We were not asked back.
(Attachment L.U. 15...41 Seconds)...CONCLUSION---ON "BOUND FOR GLORY"...
LEE...Hal Ashby's film, "Bound For Glory"...There's a little misconception that goes around. Tim was being considered for the part of Woody Guthrie, but he had not gotten that part. David Carradine finally got the part, and not because Tim exited, but just because David was chosen for the part.
DARYL...Well some of us Buckley fans think there should be a movie called "The Troubadour", and it should be about Tim, and it should be his life story along the same lines as Woody, and show how he started out as a folkie, and progressed through all the styles. Hopefully someday, somebody (possibly yourself, Lee) could write the screenplay for that and we can find somebody courageous enough to play the part of Tim.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Lee Underwood and Daryl Patrick, on behalf of the members of this forum, for sending me the un-edited tape and granting me the permission to post the interview excerpts on our message boards.
